For those who don't know, Incredible Connection is South Africa's leading PC retail store. If you want something PC related and you ask your friend where you can get one the most likely answer is 'Incredible Connection'.
They have stores in every shopping center around the country and generally are quite good.
Unfortunately they aren't quite good when it comes to their online shopping store. They not even half good, in fact, they may be half terrible.
They recently 'soft' launched their new site. When I say new I mean it's just a different one from before, because the 'new' one looks like it comes straight out of 1999.
So let's start from the top as to why the new Incredible Connection site sucks.
Before we get into the design
Tables. That is what is being used to layout the brand new Incredible Connection site. TABLES. On top of using tables we have styles which are declared in the header, JavaScript function which are declared in the tags, inline styles and of course w3c errors galore. I'm talking about the kind that have no end tags.
I wouldn't mind taking a wild guess that the designer spliced this site straight out of Fireworks / Photoshop.
No human can code this badly. So clearly there is no professionalism or expertise in the CSS and XHTML department.
I suppose it also comes as no surprise then that the site is not cross browser compatible either.
Now let's get into the design
To be honest they do say 'This site is still under construction' in the header, but when have you seen a total redesign take place in that time frame? Probably never. While we're on the subject of 'Under Construction' websites I must ask some questions here.
Would you EVER let customers into a retail store which is still under construction? No
Would you let them in even if the shelves weren't in? I don't think so
So then why would you let them into your online store which isn't complete yet?
Here is the long and short of the new site design: It's terrible. So bad in fact that initially when visiting the site I thought I had typed in the wrong URL and stumbled across someone ripping off Incredible Connection.
There is so much wrong with the design of this site that we can be here for days. So we will cover the fundamentals of web design and highlight where they have failed.
Spacing
Anyone who reads this blog or watches our show will know how much I talk about Margins and Padding. Creating space so that your eyes can breathe. This isn't anything new, it's the basics. White space is just as important as the rest of the design elements.
This site doesn't have that kind of concept in mind. First of all the spacing is inconsistent. Each element is spaced different from the next. The home page boxes have different spacing from the product page boxes.
The content and sidebar columns have completely different spacing relative to their separator line.
Line heights are important in web design, they allow your eyes to scan more easily if set right. On the Incredible Connection site they are just rumours.
Please take note of the spacing between the logo and the menu. 1px is the amount. One whole pixel. Usually anything less than ten pixels is tight. In fact I would say that 10px spacing is the limit. So that needs sorting out.
Consistency
We have already touched on this when we spoke about spacing but let's now focus on it a bit more.
The menu has square corners but the rest of the content containers have round corners. Take a look at the rounded corners. Some are more round than others, some corners are anti-aliased, and others aren't.
Font styles are also inconsistent. We have Verdana and Arial making an appearance.
Font sizes are inconsistent, they should increment by two, but in some cases increment by one, the result is that some text look fat and low while others look thin and high.
Some content is contained in boxes which don't match the dimensions of their column. Other content floats without a container at all.
The list goes on and on, the design is so inconsistent that it seems like 10 people were each given a job to design an element. They then met after designing their part and had to work out how to make it all fit. That's what it looks like.
Balance and Flow
It seems trivial to talk about the balance of this design but I will mention it in any case.
There is none. Because this site wasn't designed with design in mind the left column weighs down the right column.
Let's just look at the widths of each column. The left column which holds the main site content is 833px wide. You don't get more random… until you look at the width of the right column which is 173px. Has anyone ever mentioned Grid design to you? I didn't think so.
Without balance you can't have flow. The lack of consistency etc. throws any concept of a flowing design out of the window. The result is visual noise and scan ability which ranks along the lines of 3/10.
The most irritating thing
What bugs me more than anything about this design is that it probably cost R200,000+ ($25,000) to create and took 12months to get this far.
This is a perfect example of a South African corporate getting it completely wrong once again. I honestly wonder who sits there and says 'You know what? This will work, yes I like this'. They clearly have no clue.
One of the biggest tech retailers in our country can't get their site design right, I mentioned it earlier and I will say it again, would they let one of their stores look as bad as this site? I doubt it.
I haven't even tried using it yet. That on its own may need another blog post.
I will leave this to you to mull over. What do you think?
79 Comments
I think the thing here is that Incredible Connection is a leading brand in the industry, they dont need a website to really increase sales nor establish more relationships, so investing a ton of money into getting a design done which us saffer web peeps approve of, is not worth the ROI.
I do agree, the design lacks the finishing touches and perhaps the user journey could have been worked on, Im not even going to go into the SEO side of things or the cross browser scenario, but I reckon theyd agree with what I said in the first paragraph.
I have a meeting with the one regional manager in a week, so Ill mention it and see what he has to say :)
Close to 300 markup errors... http://foxinni.com/screens/6jspt5.png #fail and but for some reason websitegrader gives them a 93! Clearly there is more to poor sites then we give them credit for. Lastly, sites like this give .NET a bad name.. if you know what im saying.
@Chris - There is no excuse to have a site that looks this bad. I dont care about their ROI online, it does not take much effort to get a professional designer with reasonable rates to do a proper job.
You cant be one of the biggest retails in our country and have a site which looks so bad.
This design is a half job, there is no two ways about it. Why would any company be satisfied with a half job in any of their departments, be it making tea or making websites?
Awesome dude! like I said on twitter, horrifying!!!!!!!!!!!! Its amazing what people just accept, and while the client thinks its all okey the corporates are smiling all the way to the bank!!!
It actually peeves me off, cause theres already so many shitty sites in SA, and such designers are actually more like con artists than designers! If you love your job and what you do, you want your clients site looking at its best, and youll do the best you can! Not just make something shitty, charge them endless amounts, and walk away!
I believe in customer Satisfaction! Happy clients = More money and a fulfilled feeling of a job well done.
Do you think incredible is gona be happy with their designers if they happen to read this post? I think not.... Some ones gona get fired!
Ok, then out of interest, how much do you think a "proper designer with reasonable rates" would charge "one of the biggest retails in our country"?
Dude, you cant "not care about their ROI online" - its all about numbers to these peeps, its not about having a cool website! Their primary source of income is from the everyday person, who probably doesnt even know how to surf the net, let alone find their website and worry about layout/colours and so forth. The website is aimed at their target audience, not us web junkies.
Ironically, as much as I see Incredible Connection being over priced, I still buy a lot of bits and pieces from them because their service is good, the stores are clean and Im yet to get something faulty.
I do agree about the tea, Id be annoyed if my tea came with 1 sugar and not 2 - mind you, its not the best comparison though :)
I would say that $50 per hour will get you a top class web design which will be created with CSS and XHTML standards in mind.
For a company as big as theirs I would say that those rates are more than reasonable.
If they care about ROI they wouldnt release a site as bad as this. Remember, this is a tech retailer. Not a hot dog retailer. Having a site like this in the tech sector is hardly impressive.
10 years ago it was ok to have a badly designed site. But its 2009, time to get stuff right man.
I struggle to see how their target audience will find this site usable.
BTW, I also buy stuff from their retail stores and their gaming prices are pretty reasonable if you compare them to a place like Musica etc.
Ok, so $50/hour - how many hours would a site like that take to make? Im trying to get an overal budgetary requirement.
Hehe, in terms of the site - they problems outlined in your blog posts are hardly critical - if things such as shopping sessions died or the website was completely blank in a browser, those would be big issues, but all in all, it does work and doesnt look like a child did it, just not a top notch professional.
Look, you know me, Im all for slamming these big corps for shit web ventures, but in this case, I can sort of understand. Mind you, is this the OFFICIAL release, or is it still them beta testing and so forth - lol @ beta testing live though ;) Someone missed a deadline, haha.
Lets say I wana buy a digital camera:
1. www.incredible.co.za 2. Click on digital cameras under the BIG camera pic 3. I use the pagination to look through all the cameras and specs (pic short spec = awesome) 4. I click the one I like
The rest is standard process - 4 simple tasks and I know what the camera looks like and what it does, a couple more clicks and I can know which store I can get it from, whether its available and get a full understanding of the specs, oh ya, and the price is there. I can even add it to "My Favourites".
Piece of cake, and I did test it :)
@chris- Agree to an extent, but the whole point of going on about design is for the masses! Write shitty code, like tables, and dont expect to do well in SEO! Better SEO = More peeps.
Yeah, margins, paddings, blah blah blah, but in the end, were going on about this cause it just increases usability! Consistency helps not to confuse your peeps, so does margins and padding so they can see the difference between different content areas.
Theres method behind the madness. Thats what webdesign is all about. Creating something thats usable, and yet entertaining at the same time.
A company like incredible should look professional, on and off the web. The current design doesnt spell professional to me, and I dont think it would to their peeps either.
@Jarvis88 - Read my latest comment :)
"Theres method behind the madness. Thats what webdesign is all about. Creating something thats usable, and yet entertaining at the same time. "
Definitely, trust me, I have 10 years experience, Im well aware of what goes behind all of this, I just dont see the website not being usable or not being entertaining :)
"Before we get into the design Tables. That is what is being used to layout the brand new Incredible Connection site. TABLES."
OMG! Tables?! Really... TABLES?! I havent even finished reading the article yet... but I am stuck on this statement... wtf?!
All in all, I definitely think a better job could be done, thats obvious, my point was merely that if theyre concerned about ROI, then I could understand.
Itll get redone :)
@Chris - What about first impressions? What about those first 8 seconds when a new user visits the site?
What about a new user, whos a lamen, knowing where to click or reading specs which overlap each other?
What about links which dont have active states?
Need I go on? The point is that there is no professionalism here and that bleaks me out to no end, because its not like they cant afford to be professional.
#fail
I think this is the one of the poorest excuses for an online retail store website that Ive encountered. Shocking to think that good money was paid for this embarrassment.
Never mind the design Im not even going to go into that (I dont have the rest of the day available to slate it), or the ridiculous amount of script errors, from a user perspective this is about as frustrating as it gets - endless pagination, no option to choose or sort by brand or price, no product comparisons, nothing.
FAIL!
@chris- Once again, agree. But still, I dont just see usability as a shopping basket functioning. I see it as how easy it is to use... Oh where do I add the product to my basket, oh its that small 14px product heading? Not that huge ass button saying, add to cart, click me, add to favs, or the huge ass product image.
Make it easy for customers to buy, and youll increase sales 10fold!
I dont want to be taken completely wrong here. I concur with everything that is being said and agree that its a shocking job, especially seeing that a number of other SA agencies would have done an amazing job, I was merely playing devils advocate and looking at it from an ROI point of view..
Dude from an ROI perspective they are losing out big time.
I have experienced first hand what a better design can do to sales. Its not a joke how hectic it is.
@David- Perfect!
Keyword people = PROFESSIONAL!
Imagine this, you are Incredible owner/ceo whatever. You pay (some ridiculous amount) for your site.
Some time later, Bob, thats running his little computer store from home or some cheap ass shop, gets a website done for R50, 000. It looks amazing, functions great, and guess what, provides and awesome service. So maybe he doesnt have 100 stores nation wide, but who cares. I want it delivered cause Im busy. Bob delivers, how interesting.
Bobs site is good looking, usable, and functions properly.
Incredible site makes me throw up, its relatively usable, and functions.
Which one will I use?
Anyone have Bobs number?
So, in the end, as Incredible CEO, are you happy paying a shit load for a site that looks shit, and Bob is now your online competition? I think not!
hehe,
come guys, it sounds like Chris developed the site.
give him some inspiration!!!
Was most definitely not me, I actually know how to code in CSS :)
Altech should stick to Mobile stuff and not web dev it would appear.
I just wanted to add that it amazes me that some people think that it costs more to have a website built properly. There is no direct correlation between how much a website costs and how much love has been put into making it. The UK government spends a fortune on terrible websites. Why? Because business at this level is often more about personal contacts, back-handers and "account managers" than it is about designers.
Perhaps good designers arent playing enough golf.
Coding aside, the incredible connection site looks crap and it looks amateurish. The negative impact on the companys brand will be substantial and way in excess of any savings they "think" they might have made. And brand is everything.
Sadly, theyre probably blissfully unaware of how crap their site is because theyre being sold down the river by someone claiming to know much more about the web than they do. And to be fair, how many business owners have ever heard of the W3C or know their CSS from their tables?
The web design market is a great example of an imperfect market in an era when everyone assumes that information about whats good and whats not is completely free-flowing. As long as people continue to do business according to who they know and who can sell to them the hardest people wont work with the right designers for the project and will get, as Incredible Connection have, a crap product.
Simon,
Two things:
1. Of course theres a relationship between the cost and the result, how can this not play a roll? Thats like saying a Ferrari should cost the same as a BMW, because theyre both cars and the premise of having 4 wheels, an engine and windows is the same..
2. Nah, I reckon they are aware of it and Im certain that well see a change in the not so distant future!
I didnt say that there was no direct relationship between how much something costs and how good it is, merely between how much something costs and how much love has been put into it. The company that built the IC site clearly dont care that much about web design, otherwise theyd have read a book on it in the last five years.
People buying websites should expect a minimum standard, in the same way that people buying a BMW or a Ferrari expect that the car will get them where they want to go and not kill them.
Its the same with all trades. There are shysters (who often charge more) and there are people who care about what they do. You dont have to pay more for the latter, you just need to look around.
Ah @Simon - Point understood mate! I agree with that, you can quickly and easily see which companies are doing it purely because its business, rather than passion!
Now thats something I can completely agree with!!
*wonders how much golf lessons cost*
@Chris - clearly you dont care about good design or layout. Have you seen imod? *pukes on screen*
The poor design reflects badly on IC as their brand is associated with it..
Perhaps we should select a new sport to do business over, something less middle class and middle aged. How about ultimate frisbee?
I can see people getting given work according to who they met over a banana milkshake after a good game of ultimate frisbee :-)
Ah Vincent, let me just remind you that its about the content on iMod, not the design - You think Id run one of the most popular blogs in South Africa and let it fail due to the design? Come on mate, I could have a new design up in 48 hours - In fact, I have 3 designs sitting on my desktop, the reason why I dont change over, is quite simply because the site works.
Vincent - Would you be willing to say that because of the new site that theyll see a decrease in market share and/or sales?
@Vincent
Play nicely...
Lets keep this above the belt dudes. Main focus = IC, not iMod.
@Chris - I think they will lose some potential online sales bru. Im pretty much convinced actually.
Agreed David, put Vincent back in the corner so he can clean his screen ;)
Potential business is not predictable, therefore it cannot be considered as far as Im concerned, unless theyve done market research and have predicted figures to share. I bet my bottom dollar that they wont lose market share because of this, in fact, I can guarentee that their sales will have increased by the next quarter :)
Right, can we talk about iMod now?
Great dissection about what is wrong with these kinds of redesigns. I agree with you 100% - and that almost never happens with anyone :P Out of interest, what would you see this project costing realistically (Im not talking design agency ripoff business analyst ripoff months of implementation )
Now thats exactly what Ive been trying to find out - What would this initiative cost?
R200,000?
Now thats exactly what Ive been trying to find out - What would this initiative cost?
R200,000?
(Lets get the disclaimer out the way - I do work for Incredible Connection)
Sorry I couldnt chime in earlier today, but its great that we have quite a discussion going on here!
This statement by Chris - "they dont need a website to really increase sales nor establish more relationships" - this is definitely not the case with IC, or with any other company! Sure, the IC brand is strong, but with competition by Dion Wired and others, you have to always try and stay 1 step ahead of the game. :) Which is why we needed to redo the old site.
Ive got a lot more to add to this conversation as I really do have a bundle of knowledge when it comes to web design AND usability. Lets just say Ill be putting it to good use to try and help get the site to the point where it should be. So thanks for all the comments and feedback. Ill definitely be forwarding it on to the big guns in IC that can action it!
So Jason, is your official statement that IC is losing market share to competitors, so the redevelopment of the website is the strategy to combat this loss?
@Chris, "Official statement" comes from a PR company or IC spokesperson. Im a blogger, run a company that consults to IC and run their blog for them.
Im was not privy to any of the strategy, development or design of the new site. Heck, I only got access to the beta (the non-live one) 3 days before they took it live.
So, I cant comment on market share or any of that corporate speak because I dont know. I can say that IC are one of the growing businesses in the JD group (this info is online in the form of press releases etc) so I think they gaining market share if anything!
But the old site was just that, old. It wasnt serving the purpose that IC wanted it to, thus created a new one. There are some huge improvements in terms of the backend (store availability online, logistics, product comparision etc) which will kick ass once the site looses that disclaimer on the top and goes properly live. :)
So, just to make everything clear here - My name is Jason and what I say online is my stance, unless otherwise stated. #Boom.
(Without Chris and his love for playing with fire, this discussion might of been a little boring)
BTW Chris, when is iMod getting a redesign? Im sure there are guys offering you a free design in exchange for some airtime?!
Ah ok, so your comment about me saying "they dont need a website to really increase sales nor establish more relationships" is just your opinion and not actually based on any facts? :) Whats that sound? Oh, its crackling!
Redesign, argh, my site is sexy, admit it! Ive actually got 3 designs, which are sitting on my desktop, but as I mentioned earlier, Ive not changed over, simply because the site works as is..
Firstly, hi Jason. Thanks for joining in. This little discussion has been enjoyable today.
So, lets break it down:
This is a technology store, right? The first thing I would say is that their brand should really encompass a forward-thinking aesthetic and functionality when it comes to the website and this just isnt delivering that. Having said that, I didnt exactly "Experience the Future" at Dions website either.
The problem is that this site is so very behind the times its embarrassing. If we were going to design a technology e-store wed be wanting to give a really slick feel to it with some nice progressive enhancement for the user-interface and really clean graphics.
And none of this is hard to do. If you look at the IC site you can see its only really got about two or three types of information. In fact its a shopping cart with some other bits like a Store Finder. As far as the store finder is concerned it doesnt even have a map or do a location search. Its very amateur. Sorry, but it is.
So, its a simple content management system, with a space for promo banners, some other pages and payment processing. If you wanted me to say how much I think it would cost to actually do the work ,all in I would say no more than R150,000.
@Chris, read my comment again - YOU said that they dont need to increase sales or relationships. Im saying they DO! Actually Im saying it in a generic way as in ALL businesses want to increase sales and relationships. Who taught you business 101? A non-profit organisation? :)
Maybe I should of reworded it slightly. The site might or might not have something to do with market share, or it might or might not have to do with increasing brand awareness or it might or might not have anything to do with increasing sales or relationships. All this info I cannot confirm nor deny is correct or incorrect.
3 designs on your desktop eh? Cmon Chris, show us! Sure your site works, but you not the biggest blogger in SA, nor do you make R100k a month from your blog, so its not really working is it? :) Always room for improvement I say...
@Simon We have no clue what the site costs, me included, so Im not really sure I get your point? What if it cost R25k, would this entire debate be useless then? :)
@Jason - If it cost 10k I would still go on about it. We have done many designs of this scale which cost R20k - R30k and I would like to think that they arent THIS bad.
@Jason - Hilton asked how much the project might cost, done properly, and I answered him. I wasnt making a point, just pricing it.
And well said, David. I dont think the site IC have got should have been paid for at all.
Lol @Jason - No shit dude, I know thats what I said, read MY comment again slowly and youll see, lmao. But, were not talking about all businesses, were talking about IC here - As it stands, someone who can talk on behalf of IC needs to come forward and make an official comment on my remark. "might or might not" - OMG, Im laughing soooo hard, thats such a South African type comment - brilliant dude, that made my day :)
I might not have the biggest blog in SA, but then again, its a fun side project of mine. In terms of money, its not making R100,000 but who said anything about it not working if its not pulling those figures?
And just for the record, before people question me, here are two teasers of design revisions:
http://www.imod.co.za/teaser1.jpg http://www.imod.co.za/teaser2.jpg
The teasers hardly capture the designs, but its enough to prove that its not about design on iMod!
Ive seen both of those designs for iMod, they are both cool though I have always preferred the first one.
Theyve been around a while now, the time is nigh that Chris implements (hint hint there dude).
Ye, theyre hot designs, just not what I need unfortunately. Im amazed that you prefer the first one though :)
Ive got them both in fully validated css/xhtml formats, one I converted to Wordpress and the other I havent had a chance, so I could roll one out, but nah.
Watch this space ;)
Hi Guys ,
Im just wondering about the BEE requirement on this project. Might be a huge factor in the end result.
My thoughts only
Its nice to have someone voice their opinions like this. A lot has already been said above, and I agree with most of the items that David mentioned in the blog post and other points raised in the comments: The site looks pathetic, little to no use of white space, and complete disregard for consistency.
I also tend agree with Chris on points that he has mentioned here - They DO have a lot of stores countrywide. A lot of people do know them already. I know incredible connection - its a brand that I already recognize so the trust issue has already been established. What remains to be established is would i buy from them or not? In this case, i would check to see if they have the product in question and how much it costs. If the website can deliver these two for me in the least amount of clicks, im happy - otherwise, i take my business elsewhere.
Mind you, badly designed websites do make money too - Have you ever visited godaddy.com? As busy and cluttered as the website is, they do make money, buckets full of it. Thats because the have the product that people are looking for and provide it at an attractive price. Who cares if both their CSS HTML do not validate? (ive just checked, and it doesnt). Go daddy makes money.
Looking specifically at SA websites, I dont see anything new here, its the same old trend with a lot of the big corporates. Who do we have to compare these websites with? Who sets the benchmark for a good website? Lets see, do any of these websites qualify as well designed websites:
http://www.game.co.za http://www.vodacom.co.za http://www.dionwired.co.za http://www.makro.co.za or even the R6 million rand http://fifaworldcup.durban.gov.za ?
Before you bother checking, heres something they all have in common: They probably make more money than incredible connection... some of them by at least an order of magnitude. They all make healthy use of tables for laying out their content. None of them validate.
Perhaps some inspiration for your next blog post?
Mozami, Im glad you can see where I am coming from too :)
The GAME website - now thats one Ive always just been blown away by - its absolutely awful!
I challenge the Obox peeps to do a mock up of what they think the website should look like - Just like me and the TRR guys did when the one elections fail website was launched.
Chris, Agreed: the game website totally sucks. I wonder what their excuse would be for a pathetic website? But I doubt the CEOs are loosing any sleep over it.
That elections website mockup idea was great, ive always wanted to do something like that myself but thankfully ive got enough on my plate at the moment ;)
Great article... Its their mistake keeping it like that, Im sure they are losing money because of it... so if they were smart, theyd fix that ASAP. There are a lot of sites on the net that are similar to that one too.
First off - tables, and gaudiness aside - what on earth are they doing with an apology? Under construction? Every single site on the planet is under construction or it isnt a growing business. NEVER say your site is under construction. Just build it and launch. THEN improve it.
Just getting started designing a website by oneself can be relatively daunting, especially seeing the attention to detail that I have yet to pick up, what is your number one best resource (book, website, etc...) for someone who isnt a total newb, but doesnt quite have a solid foundation yet
Not sure why focus is put on rounded corners being rounder than others and the fact they designed with tables and mark-up errors, blah, blah, blah. The only thing that needs to be discussed is the fact that they launched the site before you could buy anything from the site. The buy buttons are disabled. A site that is specifically set up for buying products doesnt even have that function. So lets get the site functioning before we go into balance and flow.
@Mark - Mate this post was just about the design. The usability is a whole new beast that we can blog about :)
@Chris - Bru, this is where the misunderstanding comes in. A quality design is never just whipped up, no way. Wireframing, moodboards, studying the market, understanding why competition do certain things a certain way etc. That stuff takes time and unless they pay us for that its time we dont have.
It takes ages to come up with a good design. The current IC site was probably whipped up in between doing the coding. Look at it, its clear to see the rush factor.
So no, I probably wont be able to show IC what can be done because thats my profession. Sure they can contact me and we can talk about it and then from there you can see whats possible.
Their general layout is fine, but its all mashed together in a mess.
Can you imagine Apple.com going live with a design like ICs? Nope. Why? Because they are a quality company, just like IC should be aiming for.
I will be willing to bet that they will lose sales over this design. I know this because I have seen the results first hand of what a good design can do and what a bad design can do.
Ok cool, so "Wireframing, moodboards, studying the market, understanding why competition do certain things a certain way etc." and everything _would_ be required to pull off an amazing design, ye?
I would say so. To come up with something designed properly etc you need to go through those steps. Just like you would in SEO.
Ok, so essentially we can go back 15 comments to where people started talking about it being all passion and not money. End of the day, a large budget is required to do a site like this properly, so all the processes can be done correctly to ensure that blog posts like this dont creep up? Once again, I return to my ROI opinion, is it worth them investing several hundred thousand rand to have a designer draw moodboards, or is it better to use the money for traditional forms of advertising, which have a better chance at reaching their target audience? :)
I have seen countless case studies as well as first hand what all those factors David mentioned have on the effect of conversions and sales. So ROI - definitely.
Chris I saw where you were going with that comment and I still stand by what I think. Despite having to do all those things the cost of developing a good design is not expensive relative to the ROI.
There is no chance that all those things will come close to several hundred thousands, for less than 100k you can get all that and Im telling you now, this site cost more than that just to design. Why is there this perception that it costs millions to get pure quality? Its total BS man.
The ROI would have been covered a lot quicker than it will be now with the current design.
The Obox dudes are going on about design, padding, margins, corners, fonts etc - but all of this lends its hand directly to usability, which in the case of an online store, is crucial. If 10 people visit your site, and because everything is all over the place, only 3 notice that only the product name is clickable, and the rest leave - you have lost sales because of? Design (which equals usability).
Another good example @Chris brought up was the buying of a digital camera at the store. You click cameras, go through a couple of pages, choose a camera, click buy and off you go. It works.
There is one massive thing you havent thought of is personas. Every site has different type of people visiting it. 1: people knowing they want to buy a digital camera from IC online, 2: people looking for web specials, 3: impulse buyers seeing products on the home page to buy immediately (maybe for a gift?), 4: people wanting to compare prices, 5: people wanting piece of mind that the online shop is "websafe" - their details are safe, shipping is guaranteed etc... this list goes one. An online store needs to cater for ALL of these people.
@Jason - Trust me, I know about conversion, thats what I do. However, I dont think this is the case here, I still dont think their market share will increase incredibly because of the target audience - yes, if they invest several hundred thousand into getting a website done, then it will increase sales, as David said, but enough to cover the investment before the next requirement to redo their website? I think not, just my opinion.
@David - Not expensive relative to ROI - thats project dependant and most definitely not something you can use as a generalization.
Did the current site cost more than R100,000? Is there proof of this?
Ok, perhaps it would have been covered a lot quicker, but could we say that a good design might have taken 10 years to cover the investment aposed to 15 years?
@Chris Name a site that doesnt want to increase conversions?
@Jason - Naturally every site wants to increase conversions, thats not what Im saying, my argument is about how much budget needs to be spent to result in an increase in conversions and then weighing up the increase in conversions against the budget that was invested and determining whether it was viable..
Aaah, ok. That makes sense. I do know that a lot of the work on the site came in the backend where they now offer store availability of products online - so that had to have been hooked up to their stock system. No easy thing to do! Along with that, the shopping cart functionality has also been redone to make buying items a lot smoother, including the logistics side of things as well as a product comparision engine much the same as you see on cellphone sites. These things IMO should also increase conversions as your shopping experience is probably a whole lot better!
Sorry, perhaps I communicated it badly in the first place. Ye, I agree on that completely, backend development is impossible for us to measure as we dont have access to behind the scenes and as you said and we both know, backend development like that is incredibly expensive. That said, the money spent on just that was probably enough to put them on the back foot for the time being with regards to investing more money into the front end, which as we know, will get redone in the not too distant future.
End of the day, I agree that the site isnt good, I never said it was, I just merely wanted to point out to everyone that theres a little more to it than meets the eye - which our designer friends dont see *wink*
It, of course, would be great to see a leading South African technology store with a shit hot design!
Uhhh Chris, I have developed sites before. I know that there is more to it, Ive been there, in fact in some cases Im still there.
What IC have done is a half job and the price is not the case. Would a company like Altech charge 20k for a site like this? I doubt it.
I think programers look at the site and say oh but look it works but that is only half the story. At the same time, you cant have a site which looks good but doesnt work.
They are both 50 / 50. Doing a design this bad is like making a site which doesnt function.
So yes there is more than meets the eye. But just have a look at what does meet the eye, its bad.
Nobody said anything about R20,000 - Would you do it for R100,000? I most definitely wouldnt!!!
My guess - Altech hasnt worked with a leading brand (I cant get to their site, cos Incredible.co.za is down, rofl) before and they quoted R100,000 thinking it would be a lucrative project, but once they hit the corporate red tape and chains of command and authorization, the hours assigned to the project were quickly used up and a hussle had to happen to complete the front end. Along with that, I would say that Altech probably didnt do analysis correctly perhaps because they just wanted to land the project, so they under quoted, which is there problem, not ICs, however, on the flip side, IC probably had a budget, which Altech wanted to accept - both parties are to fault there, I guess, more Altech than IC - but, at the end of the day, I reckon IC didnt have the budget for such a big project and might have ended up with their monies worth, which as weve seen, is underfortunate.
Ive worked as an operations manager on some really big South African brands and it all boils down to budget at the end of the day. The value of the site might only be R100,000 but the cost of doing it is FAR more because of the red tape, brand guides and chains of command, not to mention the lack of understanding.
I still maintain that it was a budgetary limitation that resulted in this and that its because they cant justify wasting all the money on a "make saffer web 2.0 junkies happy" design because the return wont cover it ;)
I havent read everything I admit, but I agree with Dave, bad design = shitty presentation of product, which will lead ROI not being fully reached - even if they lose 1 sale.
loss of 1 sale could come from a site visitor who has researched their product over a few websites, found incredibles site lacking and rather gone with another site that looks like they have given more resources to the web side of the business and therefore the service must be better because they are taking it more seriously.
imho I would give another site a try based on everything else being equal, except for site design
Ouch, thats something! That is quite amazing considering money shouldnt be an option when it comes to a company like this! I sometimes see tables being used within new sites but not often and simple w3c coding errors is a big no no.
If this was a large independent apple store I couldnt see these issues popping up ;)
Just a question? Does any1 here have a job or run a company? Seriously! Excl David, as this is his blog....
You guys keep going on and on speculating about why the design is shitty and what caused it. WTF? Got any solid facts? Know what ICs budget was? Know what the qoute was?
Get those facts and we can all go for a beer and continue this argument...
The post was about the terrible design! Not the back end! If you can fork out huge amounts for a back end then you can surely make sure the design is pleasing to the eye!
@Chris- I also highly doubt that the design is crap cause of the budget or running over time! If their designers had talent the front could have been done in a day if not less. Heck, if time is a constraint, let psd to html do it then or some slicing company! Plus, if I send a quote to a client after discussing all specs, thats the quote! It doesnt change! If I dont make it I dont charge the client extra! The only time I change the set amount is when Scope Creep is introduced and the client wants numerous changes. Thats it!
The design could be blamed on IC not knowing the diff between good looking design and bad, thus Altech saves themselves some effort (although coding in tables is no time saver) or altech not having designers that love their job and are actaully good at it. Face it, if you have the ability to do it, then why dont you?
All in all, this is a lost cause. Youre running in the dark, dont have facts, and whats done is done. I highly doubt that IC is going to do a redesign again, and if they do, altech would probably be responsible.
So do SA a favour, and go work, or get some work, and make the SA Web a better and pleasing place. That way youll at least make some extra cash.
Just wasted my lunch time writing this, so, Im off to follow my own advice!
@Jarvis - I dont want to waste any more of your precious time, but what I will say is that they _will_ have it redesigned and altech _wont_ be involved - want to bet on that? ;)
Interesting debatepenis showing evenyou guys have going on here. You guys have covered a lot in the comments and I liked the initial article. The point here is though a little while ago I tried to go get info on new monitors I wanted to buy FROM THEM and couldnt because the site crashed a number of times and when it worked I could still not get the info let alone buy anything.
This site has been built using asp.net using standard web forms, it was also done using VB.net as apposed to C#. More than likely anything you see on here was done via Visual Studio and more so through the Wysiwig editor. All this leads me to believe that the site was designed in house and then also developed by some guy in the IT department. This is also why the site probably designed to work with only IE (there be hacks in the code - in my best pirate voice).
The IT probably has never done a web site before or has no idea about web accessability, usability, semantic mark-up or the like. He also has no clue about web typography, design or branding.
I can almost certainly say that this whole site was created by people who could care less about it or the bigger picture. They work for a corporate to start with that shows me a few things they are sheep who simply want to earn their wage go home and watch TV. Their work reflects this.
Dont worry though they are not alone in this, have a look at Woolworths.co.za in firefox or chrome. They actuallyin 2009say that their site wont work in Firefox.
So all this said the only way this will change is education, either we as web professionals need to educate clients. The problem is any one can design a web site, from the surface it looks blindly simple however doing it right is hard. Thinking in layers of behavior and scenarios getting the markup right for everyone because yes you HAVE TO SUPPORT EVERY BROWSER. Clients need to be taught that the difference between using your IT guy or nephew to design your site is wrong, its like having your nephew who has just qualified as a paramedic do open heart surgery on you.
To everyone a bad site does have an impact on income, even if your site is merely a brochure site. It caries your branding, it represents your business so this bullshit of they are market leaders is a pile of horse shit. Rome always falls and more so when they think we are Rome, we can have a bad site, print campaign, ad campaign, products and customer experience . This has happened to many companies when you are at the top thats when you have to work your hardest because everyone wants to be there. Its almost easier to work your way to the top, especially when the guy at the top is complacent.
Dont be fooled by lots of stores and massive profit margins. If you know your .com history you will know how many small companies gave huge companies a run in doing small things such as putting the customer first in all respects. Many of those now too have yet again fallen as they grew and being replaced by smaller up and comers.
Okay Im done back to work. :)
Theres absolutely no excuse. It doesnt matter if it cost R500. Its a crap design and they definitely did not hire the right people. They are aimed at the tech market (as said earlier) so common man, get it right. Its not hard.
It doesnt justify anything by flashing how many years experience we all have designing websites. The bottom line is if someone like my Mom comes to the site and says the design is awful - thats pretty much a non-technical and non-anal designer realising its shit.
Enough said.
" @Jason - Trust me, I know about conversion, thats what I do. However, I dont think this is the case here, I still dont think their market share will increase incredibly because of the target audience - yes, if they invest several hundred thousand into getting a website done, then it will increase sales, as David said, but enough to cover the investment before the next requirement to redo their website? I think not, just my opinion. " - Chris M
If conversion is what you do Im concerned.
You should take into account that if the site isnt user friendly and a nightmare to use, people wont use it. Not only will they not use it, they will complain to their friends which if they hold their friend opinion in high regard wont use the site. Im not even gona go into the math of how many people 1 person can end up influencing.
You should also have taken into account that a site converting members will have the same effect as above... but more importantly keep them coming back which will now not happen.
Lastly by the time they do the next site design, this one should suffice seeing as retro is late 1990s is on its way back in, and they will not have to change anything. :P
A brand like incredible, selling tech items, need to show that they are ahead of their game, not following.
Incredible is recognised as a market leader to most of the public, they should not represent themselves otherwise - especially in the online environment
With regard to the ROI commens, I put more weight on them losing potential sales with a badly designed site (current one) than I do with them increasing sales with a better designed site, because:
Clients recognise the brand as a market leader and venture on to the website, if the website is usable and looks great and works, they will purchase, as they are for the most part, trusted already.
If the website on the other hand looks shoddy, potential buyers may have second thoughts about purchasing online from them and begin to look elsewhere
At the end of the day, and my comment, David is correct in his article with regard to all usability issues; balance, consistency etc in that it does nothing to entice you to actually purchase something.
Being thrown together as a requirement and being built with love (with the user and the aim of the site in mind) are two totally different monsters, I think we can all agree that Incredibles new website has been weighed, measured and found wanting
You guys got it spot on!
I actually feel emabarrased for Incredible Connection and I have nothing to do with them. I think their marketing department needs some new staff, because clearly they are useless. Whoever lets something like that pass through the sign off process... well lets just leave it there.
Quote "Would you EVER let customers into a retail store which is still under construction? No"
I gota use this line on my customers.
Hi all,
it appears some of the bugs have been fixed but not all, the aweful About Us page looks gross, and theres still some inconsistent formatting floating around incldung that black bar running across the screen, not too mention a misalingment in one of those bars, unless its my eyes deceiving me O_o perhaps they stumbled across this blog and noticed all was not well on there site.
Please save the world from poor web designs.
I have to agree, the site is terrible. Their error messages are also very weak - 'User Identity must be added' and 'Process Succeed' or something similar when you manage to set yourself up as a user.